So I have been on the no more page 3 facebook page as it was pointed out that people there were using Lilith (again, thank you John) as part of the argument to draw validity for the position on NMP3 and the closing of clubs. The link to the facebook article is here although I do have a lot of screen shots of the discussion if the link disappears. Sorry if it appears halfway through the discussion but the usual pat on the back brigade were there sabre rattling. What the piece and the discussions does bring up is some issues that anyone who tries to have a reasonable debate should know before they start.
Firstly there was 3%ers as I call them. Those that were shown in the Kent/Loughborough research that think clubs have no place in society, they don't really care what the rest of the world think they are right and that is an end of it. Then you have the occasional posters who ask questions because they want to understand these will at least try to engage civilly and accept that I don't and can't speak for all men and nor would I ever want to. Then there are some who are willing to actually go read the articles I linked to, and those who asked for links to research that I didn't put in. These realised they might get a bit of stick from others so did not ask for links on the thread for links and it was only 3 of them that pm'd me but I am hoping more will look at it and question the methodology and belief system that operates with some NMP3 campaigners.
As I said I was on there because of Lilith and I was surprised (and in many ways not really surprised) when someone said they had put in Lap Dancing and rape into google and came back with a 2012 article from the telegraph. Strange, I thought I knew of every claim and certainly any that were even remotely thought to be valid. But of course this turned out to be our friend Drummond from Newquay and we all remember how that turned out. Of course when I pointed out that the fact that Drummond was wrong not an apology for not checking sources just a set of replies about how rape has gone down recently because Newquay has become more family orientated. No one actually checked on the dates of the claim and the dates of the FOI from the Newquay Voice. I have no problem that someone used Drummond because of what google threw back but a simple acknowledgement that the particular story they had used was in error would have been civil.
I quoted Leeds University Research, I quoted Kent/Loughborough research, I pointed out that I have over 20 years knowledge of the good the bad and the indifferent. I suggested that they get behind the dancers and go read the ELSC Manifesto and was told I love my facts and figures too much. I guess I might because for all the talk and claim and counter claim the research is as close to Objective as we are going to get in the world. I will admit that I have a subjective point of view and that colours my opinion, it not rocket science or news. Others though will not accept that they are operating on an opinion which has less and less facts behind it each day. Subjective? never how could they be because they are right and any other opinion is totally invalid, lies or half truths because they say so. As I bowed out of the conversation I pointed out that Roz Hardie had gone to a meeting and wasn't strictly accurate with the slides. They implied that there were several interviews with dancers that quotes were taken from when in fact it it was all from a book co-authored by Object which let be honest would be like a book on immigration co-authored by Nigel Farage (this is my new favourite saying).
We will always see people quote Lilith and Drummond because of search engines and "lazy" newspapers not amending or deleting incorrect articles. So keep your eyes out and if anyone spots the miss use of these reports and press releases please point me at them as I really don't mind being the most hated man on No More Page 3 time line or anywhere else.